MARMARA ÜNİVERSİTESİ TEKNOLOJİ FAKÜLTESİ

TAŞIT TEKNOLOJİSİ

Abdullah DEMİR, Yrd. Doç. Dr.

ŞASİ, ÇERÇEVE ve GÖVDE - KAROSER/İ

-GİRİŞ- Vehicle Structure

Frame, Body, and Chassis

Kısa Ufuk Turu

It should be noted that every automobile is a highly complex machine which consists of 25 to 30 systems, about 500 modules, and more than 50,000 individual parts.

Bernd Heißing | Metin Ersoy (Eds.), Chassis Handbook Fundamentals, Driving Dynamics, Components, Mechatronics, Perspectives, 2011.

https://sellyourcarnow.wordpress.com/tag/second-hand-car-parts-brisbane/

Bernd Heißing | Metin Ersoy (Eds.), Chassis Handbook Fundamentals, Driving Dynamics, Components, Mechatronics, Perspectives, 2011.

It can take up to seven years to develop a new vehicle from an initial concept to full series production. Most vehicles remain in series production for approximately seven years. After initial production, passenger vehicles are expected to remain in service for at least ten years and should maintain a high resale value throughout their service life. Engineers and designers must therefore consider a time frame of approximately 25 years starting from the beginning of the concept phase.

Bernd Heißing | Metin Ersoy (Eds.), Chassis Handbook Fundamentals, Driving Dynamics, Components, Mechatronics, Perspectives, 2011.

Today, automakers only manufacture about 30 % of each car themselves. The remaining 70 % of the components are purchased from suppliers.

http://www.tlc-mag.com/archive_issues/car_care_aug10_enlarge.html

Bernd Heißing | Metin Ersoy (Eds.), Chassis Handbook Fundamentals, Driving Dynamics, Components, Mechatronics, Perspectives, 2011.

Vehicle Function Levels

The V model can be applied to different levels of vehicle development. To facilitate this, the vehicle is divided into different systems, subsystems, modules, etc., until the most basic component level is reached

Bernd Heißing | Metin Ersoy (Eds.), Chassis Handbook Fundamentals, Driving Dynamics, Components, Mechatronics, Perspectives, 2011.

Superimposed trends: trends based on the extrapolation of the past, present trends, and future trends

Şasi, Çerçeve ve Gövde - Karoser/i

The vehicle’s main components and sub - systems can be categorically listed as: Power-train, chassis, exterior and interior trims, and the body in white (BiW) or vehicle body - shell.

Body in white: Beyaz gövde. Bir otomobilin motor vb gibi ana parçaları ile trim donanımı öncesi ana yapısıdır.

http://www.forocoches.com/foro/showthread.php?t=3781364

2004 5 series

http://www.forocoches.com/foro/showthread.php?t=3781364

2013-SL-Class_body_in_white

Body in White

www.experi-metal.com

indianautosblog.com - Mercedes Benz C-Class

B“t“n taşıtlar kendilerini ve “zerlerindeki y“k“ taşıyan bir gövdeye sahiptir. Kullanım amaçlarına göre farklı olmakla birlikte taşıtların gövdeleri genel olarak iki ana kısımdan oluşur. 1. Şasi 2. Karoseri

Figure : The different panels of the vehicle structure

A typical BiW consists of about 300 – 400 stamped pieces, however, only a few main panels affect the overall geometry, fit and finish. These panels are the roof, the trunk (inner, outer, and pan), the hood (inner and outer), the under - body, the wheel - house, the body - side, A and B pillars, the floor pan, the front module (engine cradle, crush zones, shock towers), the quarter panels, and doors (inner, outer).

Mohammed A. Omar, The Automotive Body Manufacturing Systems and Processes, © John Wiley & Sons Ltd. ISBN: -0-470-97633-3

A-pillar: A-direği / s“tunu, A-dikmesi. Quarter panel: Arka kelebek panel, çamurluk panel

Stamped pieces: Preslenmiş parçalar

• Consists of the vehicle’s frame and everything attached to it except the body

• Includes the tires, wheels, engine, transmission, drive axle assembly, and frame

Chassis

Russell Krick, “Modern Automotive Technology” Sunumu, The Goodheart-Willcox Co.

Chassis Frames The chassis frame is the commercial vehicle's actual load-bearing element. It is designed as a ladder-type frame, consisting of side and cross members. The choice of profiles decides the level of torsional stiffness. Torsionally flexible frames are preferred in medium-and heavy-duty trucks because they enable the suspension to comply better with uneven terrain. Torsionally stiff frames are more suitable for smaller delivery vehicles and vans. / Reff: Automotive Handbook

"Introduction To Automobile" Sunumu, Saeindia.

• Chasis is a French term which denotes the whole vehicle except body in case of heavy vehicles.

• In case of light vehicles of mono construction it denotes the whole body except additional fitting in the body.

• Chassis consists of engine, brakes, steering system & wheel mounted on the frame, differential, suspension.

Its Principal Function • To safety carry the maximum load. • Holding all components together while driving. • Accommodate twisting on even road surface. • Endure shock loading. • It must absorb engine - driveline torque.

FRAME • Frame is the main part of chassis on

which remaining part of chassis are mounted.

• Frame should be extremely rigid and strong so that it can withstand shocks, twist, stresses and vibrations when vehicle is moving on road.

Strong metal structure that provides a mounting place for other parts of the vehicle Body-over-frame construction chassis parts and body bolt to the

frame Unibody (unitized) construction sheet metal body panels are welded together to form the body and frame unibody (or monocoque)

"Introduction To Automobile" Sunumu, Saeindia.

Şasinin görevi: İnsan v“cudundaki iskelet gibi ana taşıyıcılık görevini yerine getirir. Taşıtın birçok elemanını “zerinde taşır.

Kaynak: 6ase ve Karoseri Sunumu, TÜVTURK, / / .

www.penncvs.com

Kaynak: 6ase ve Karoseri Sunumu, TÜVTURK, / / .

Merdiven Tipi Şasi (Paralel Kollu Şasi): Kamyon ve otob“slerde yaygın olarak kullanılan şasi tipidir. Paralel iki kol ve bu iki kola bağlanmış kuşaklardan/traverslerden oluşur. Kollar genelde U, kare, dikdörtgen ve daire kesitli olarak preste yapılırlar. Kuşaklar ve “st yapı, kaynak, perçin ve cıvata ile şasi kollarına bağlanır.

Ağır kamyonlar ve y“k taşıyan taşıtlar şasilidir ve “zerinde s“r“c“ kabini ile y“kleme yapılan kasası vardır.

Kaynak: 6ase ve Karoseri Sunumu, TÜVTURK, / / .

• The ladder frame is the simplest and oldest of all designs.

• It consists merely of two symmetrical rails, or

• This design offers good beam resistance because of its continuous rails from front to rear

• poor resistance to torsion "Introduction To Automobile" Sunumu, Saeindia.

6ase ve Karoseri Sunumu, TÜVTURK, 08/03/2006. Kaynak: VW, Otomobil Teknolojisinin Temelleri

Bernd Heißing | Metin Ersoy (Eds.), Chassis Handbook Fundamentals, Driving Dynamics, Components, Mechatronics, Perspectives, 2011.

The Rolling/Driving Chassis Vehicles with ladder-frame chassis configurations (mostly light trucks for the US market) are often preassembled as a rolling chassis including the fuel system, driveline, and other running gear (Figure). This rolling chassis can be assembled by a system supplier and rolled or otherwise transported to the OEM’s final assembly line.

Rolling chassis (DANA Corp.)

Çapraz Kollu (X Tipi) Şasi: Oldukça hafif bir yapısı vardır. Daha çok kamyonetlerde tercih edilir.

6ase ve Karoseri Sunumu, TÜVTURK, 08/03/2006.

Tek Kollu (Platform) Şasi: Ortada tek bir kol ve buna bağlanmış kuşaklar, bazen de taban sacı ile bir b“t“n olarak yapılırlar. Otomobillerde tercih edilir.

6ase ve Karoseri Sunumu, TÜVTURK, 08/03/2006.

Çatal Kollu Şasi: Taşıt motorunun bağlanmasına ve destek oluşturmasına elverişli bir şasi tipidir. Kamyonetlerde ve otomobillerde tercih edilir.

6ase ve Karoseri Sunumu, TÜVTURK, 08/03/2006.

Karma Tip Karoseri

Şasi ve karoserinin bir nevi kombinasyonundan meydana gelmiştir.

Taşıt, bir platform şasi veya çatal şasi ile gövde saçının kaynakla veya

cıvata ile birleştirilmesinden oluşur. Otomobil ve otob“slerde

uygulaması vardır. 6ase ve Karoseri Sunumu, TÜVTURK, / / .

Tam Taşıyıcı Karoseri G“n“m“zde binek otomobiller şasisiz olarak imal edilmektedirler. Gövde

kendi kendini taşıyan bir formda dizayn edilmektedir. Genellikle karoseri

h“cre tip dediğimiz gövdedir. Bilgisayarlar yardımı ile orijinal yapının ve

istenilen bölge veya parçaların tek tek deformasyon ve gerilmeleri

hesaplanabilir. 6ase ve Karoseri Sunumu, TÜVTURK, / / .

H“cre Tipi Karoseri Taşıt gövdesi ayrı h“crelerden oluşur. Yolcu böl“m“ taşıtın ön ve

arkasına göre korunmaya alınmıştır. Çarpışma anında ön ve arka h“creler

daha elastik yapıldıkları için yolculara gelecek darbe minimuma

indirilmiştir. Binek otomobillerde genellikle uygulanan bir gövde tipidir.

6ase ve Karoseri Sunumu, TÜVTURK, 08/03/2006.

Şasisiz Otob“s Gövdeleri Otob“s imalinde şasisiz gövdeye örnek olarak gösterilen iki ana grup vardır. Bunlar: 1. Platform takviyeli otob“s gövdesi 2. Tam taşıyıcı otob“s gövdesi (Kendini Taşıyıcı Yapı Biçimi) Her iki yapı tipide şasili tipe nazaran hafiftir. Taşıt ağırlığında azalma tam taşıyıcı otob“s gövdesinde daha fazladır. Şasinin çıkarılması ile araçta yaklaşık %8 ağırlık azaltılmış olur. Ancak bunun bir kısmı mukavemet arttırmak amacı ile tekrar kullanılır. Taşıtın boş ağırlığı ne kadar az ise işletme şartları da o oranda ekonomik olur. Bu nedenle taşıtın ağır olması istenmez.

www.haberortak.com

OKUMA PARÇASI Şasi ve karoseri, otomobilin gövdesini oluşturur. 6asi çerçevesi 6asi çatkısı , aracın b“t“n parçalarını “zerinde taşıyan, motora, karoseriye ve g“ç aktarma organlarına desteklik eden bir temeldir. Karoseri ise aracın kaporta ya da gövde diye tabir edilen sac aksamıdır. G“n“m“z araçlarında en genel anlamda iki t“r şasi çerçevesi bulunmaktadır. Bunlar ayrı şasi çerçevesi ve birleşik şasi çerçevesidir. Eğer şasi çerçevesi sonradan karoseriye bağlama yöntemleriyle tutturulacak şekilde yapılmışsa ayrı şasi çerçevesi olarak isimlendirilir. 6asi çerçevesi oldukça katı ve sağlam bir yapıya sahip olmalıdır. G“n“m“z otomobillerinde pek kullanılmamaktadır. Daha çok ağır ticari araçlarda kullanılır. Birleşik şasi çerçevesinde ise; şasi çatkısında parçalar birleştirme yöntemleri kullanılarak tutturulmuştur. Bazı birleştirme yerlerinde kuvvetlendirmeler yapılmak zorundadır. Onun için birleşik karoseri-şasilerin çeşitli böl“mlerinde birbirini kuvvetlendiren, t“m gövdeyi birlikte destekleyen bir yapı özeliği vardır.

Gövde Tipleri Body Types

Karoserinin görevi: Taşıta şekil veren, fonksiyonları yerine getirmesi için ana hacim sağlayan kısmıdır.

Kaynak: Şase ve Karoseri Sunumu, TÜVTURK, / / .

Made of steel, aluminum, fiberglass, plastic, or composite materials

Forms the outside of the vehicle

Serves as an attractive covering for the chassis

Russell Krick, “Modern Automotive Technology” Sunumu, The Goodheart-Willcox Co.

Lorenzo Morello, Lorenzo Rosti Rossini, Giuseppe Pia, Andrea Tonoli, The Automotive Body, Volume I: Components Design, e-ISBN 978-94-007-0513-5

The purpose of body design is to achieve the following: • Aesthetics: to provide a pleasing overall appearance, surface quality and

consistent details. • Structural function: to support the weight of the transported passengers

and load as well as the mechanical parts required for vehicle propulsion, control and other system functions, so withstanding mechanical stresses from multiple sources.

• Ergonomy and roominess: to supply easy access and adequate room for the driver, passengers and transported goods.

• Safety: to ensure integrity of passenger compartment in the event of a crash, while absorbing the impact energy as well as to reduce injuries to vulnerable road users (pedestrians, wheelers), in case of collision.

• Aerodynamics: to minimize drag due to air impact; to control air flow effects on tyre-road contact and vehicle stability.

• Insulation: to minimize noise, vibration and thermal transmission, generated by body walls, by lack of sealing between compartment and movable parts and by thermal radiation from the surfaces of passengers compartment.

• Visibility: to provide the highest possible day and night visibility on the environment and to host the lighting devices in the most effective way.

Lorenzo Morello, Lorenzo Rosti Rossini, Giuseppe Pia, Andrea Tonoli, The Automotive Body, Volume I: Components Design, e-ISBN 978-94-007-0513-5

Moreover, the body must satisfy a series of prerequisites: • high reliability (to maintain design functions

vehicle life along), • low cost (to minimize production investment,

process and material cost), • high material recyclability (by rapid

disassembling and straightforward division of heterogeneous materials).

These functions ere required by the completely assembled body and are achieved through the individual contribution of body components and several body systems.

Mohammed A. Omar, The Automotive Body Manufacturing Systems and Processes, © 2011 John Wiley & Sons Ltd. ISBN: 978-0-470-97633-3

The interior and exterior trims compose the front and rear ends, the door system, and the cockpit trim.

Finally, the body in white is made up of the closures (doors, hood, tail-gate) and the frame, see Figure 1 ).

Hatırlatma: "Body in white" nedir? Beyaz gövde. Bir otomobilin motor vb. gibi ana parçaları ile trim donanımı öncesi ana yapısını ifade eder.

Body Types

Russell Krick, “Modern Automotive Technology” Sunumu, The Goodheart-Willcox Co.

Automobiles are available in several body types, including: • sedan

• hardtop • convertible • hatchback

• station wagon • minivan

• sport-utility vehicle

Automobile Body Parts

Russell Krick, “Modern Automotive Technology” Sunumu, The Goodheart-Willcox Co.

emmesei.com

Toyota

Sedan

Uses center body pillars, or B pillars, between the front and rear doors. A hardtop does not use B pillars.

Russell Krick, “Modern Automotive Technology” Sunumu, The Goodheart-Willcox Co.

A sedan is a car with a four-door body configuration and a

conventional trunk or a sloping back with a hinged rear cargo hatch

that opens upward.

Sedan is the most

common body style that

are cars with four or

more seats and a fixed

roof that is full-height up

to the rear window.

Sedans can have two or

four doors.

Convertible

Uses a vinyl or cloth top that can be raised and lowered

Russell Krick, “Modern Automotive Technology” Sunumu, The Goodheart-Willcox Co.

A convertible is

a car with a

removable or

retractable top.

Hardtop

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardtop

A hardtop is a rigid form of automobile roof. They may be detachable for separate storing, retractable within the vehicle itself, or permanently attached to an auto lacking a center side-support known as a B-pillar. The term is also used to describe such vehicles, principally the last. Hardtops may be either two-door or four-door, and tend to be more expensive and collectible than sedan models of the same vehicle.

A Volvo C70 with retractable hardtop

Hatchback

The large rear door allows easy access when hauling items

Russell Krick, “Modern Automotive Technology” Sunumu, The Goodheart-Willcox Co.

Station Wagon

Provides a large rear interior compartment

Russell Krick, “Modern Automotive Technology” Sunumu, The Goodheart-Willcox Co.

A wagon is a

car with an

extended body

and a roofline

that extends

past the rear

doors.

Station wagon

or wagon is a

car with a full-

height body all

the way to the

rear; the load-

carrying space

created is

accessed via a

rear door or

doors.

Minivan

Has a higher roofline for more headroom and cargo space

Russell Krick, “Modern Automotive Technology” Sunumu, The Goodheart-Willcox Co.

A minivan/van is a vehicle

with a box-shaped body

enclosing a large cargo or

passenger area. The identified gross weight of a

van is less than 10.000 lb

≈ 4,500 kg. Vans can be identifiable by their

enclosed cargo or

passenger area, short

hood, and box shape. Vans

can be divided into mini

van, small van, midsize

van, full-size van, and large

van. The van subdivision

has the same specifications as SUV subdivisions.

Minivans are boxy wagon cars usually containing three rows of seats, with a capacity of six

or more passengers and extra luggage space.

Sport-Utility Vehicle

Provides the comfort of a passenger car, the interior space of a station wagon, and the durability of a truck

Russell Krick, “Modern Automotive Technology” Sunumu, The Goodheart-Willcox Co.

An MPV (multi-purpose vehicle) is designed as large cars or small buses having off-

road capability and easy loading of goods. However, the idea for a car with a multi-

purpose application can be seen in other classes, especially SUVs.

An SUV (sport utility

vehicle) is a vehicle

with off-road capability.

SUV is designed for

carrying ten or fewer

persons, and generally

considered a multi-

purpose vehicle. Most

SUVs are four-wheel-

drive with and increased

ground clearance. The

SUV is also known as 4-

by-4, 4WD, 4 × 4 or 4x4.

SUVs can be divided into

mini, small, midsize, full-

size, and large SUV.

Ek Okuma ve İnceleme Böl“m“

Lorenzo Morello, Lorenzo Rosti Rossini, Giuseppe Pia, Andrea Tonoli, The Automotive Body, Volume I: Components Design, e-ISBN 978-94-007-0513-5

Fig. 1: Common body and chassis configurations.

Lorenzo Morello, Lorenzo Rosti Rossini, Giuseppe Pia, Andrea Tonoli, The Automotive Body, Volume I: Components Design, e-ISBN 978-94-007-0513-5

A) Unitized body or unibody, in which the chassis parts cannot be physically removed from the upper body parts. In this case, suspensions and other mechanical parts are directly fitted (using brackets) to body frame. The main advantage of such solution is relatively low weight, while the main disadvantage is a lower dimensional precision of suspension attachment, due to body tolerance and the lower filtering performance of suspension fittings, reducing the insulation of vibrations due to road-wheel excitation.

B) Body on frame, where the chassis frame is connected to upper body frame by bolts with or without the inter-position of rubber bushes. Such a solution offers the main advantage of allowing the adoption of one chassis for different body shapes, providing benefits in terms of mechanical parts standardization and simplification of the assembly process of a mechanical chassis, before being matched to the upper body. This kind of solution is commonly used for cargo vehicles, off-road and SUV. The main disadvantage is the increased weight with respect to configuration A).

Reading Text Unitized (self-supporting) body (Standard

design) The conventional unitized (self-supporting) body is built up of hollow sheet-steel components onto which body panels are welded by welding robots or in multi-spot welding units. Individual parts can also be glued in position. Depending upon vehicle type, roughly 5000 spot welds must be made along a total flange length of 120...200 m. The flange widths are 10...18 mm. Other parts (front fenders, doors, hood and luggage-compartment lid) are bolted to the supporting structure of the body. Other types of body construction include frame and sandwich designs. Reff: Automotive Handbook

Note: Unitized Body = Unibody = Self-supporting Body

Figure 1.1: Top left: (a) a uni-body design, top, right: (b) truck platform; and bottom right: (c) space-frame design

The frame can be of a uni-body design (Figure 1.1 (a) uni - body), a body - on - frame (Figure 1.1 (b)), or a space - frame (Figure 1.1 (c)). The uni-body design features stamped panels, while the space - frame is made up of extrusions and cast parts. The BiW closures are selected based on the vehicle’s constituent material dent - resistance properties (i.e. yield strength) while the frame is designed to provide specific torsional and bending stiffness.

Mohammed A. Omar, The Automotive Body Manufacturing Systems and Processes, © John Wiley & Sons Ltd. )SBN: -0-470-97633-3

Unibody Construction

The frame is an integral part of the body

Russell Krick, “Modern Automotive Technology” Sunumu, The Goodheart-Willcox Co.

Body-over-Frame Construction

The body bolts to a thick steel frame Russell Krick, “Modern Automotive Technology” Sunumu, The Goodheart-Willcox Co.

Lorenzo Morello, Lorenzo Rosti Rossini, Giuseppe Pia, Andrea Tonoli, The Automotive Body, Volume I: Components Design, e-ISBN 978-94-007-0513-5

C) Body with ancillary subframes, for powertrain and

suspension systems; connections between the subframe and the body can be either rigid or through elastic bushes. The main advantages are modularity and the division of the assembly process between parallel lines, enabling components to be mounted on the sub-frames. The resulting sub-assemblies can be tested before integration with main body. Moreover, the relative ease in which elastic and damping devices between subframe and body can be inserted, provide an improved insulation from noise and vibration. Again, the main disadvantage is increased weight, but to a lower extent than configuration B). sub-frame: takviye şasi, tali çerçeve

Lorenzo Morello, Lorenzo Rosti Rossini, Giuseppe Pia, Andrea Tonoli, The Automotive Body, Volume I: Components Design, e-ISBN 978-94-007-0513-5

D) Dual frame body, in which body and chassis are separate and

connected through elastic and damping bushes. In this configuration, the structural, safety, propulsion and driving functions are concentrated and optimized in the chassis, with priority to front and rear crash absorption, torsional stiffness and resistance to stress induced through the suspension and powertrain stiff and precise, since the filtering of road-surface induced excitation is achieved by incorporating elastic connections between chassis and body. The weight of upper body can be reduced, since the structural task is limited to its own inertial stresses and to those induced by transported components, people and load. The same chassis can also be adopted by different bodies of similar inertia properties. Although the increase of chassis weight remains a disadvantage, it is partially counterbalanced by the reduction in the weight of upper body.

Lorenzo Morello, Lorenzo Rosti Rossini, Giuseppe Pia, Andrea Tonoli, The Automotive Body, Volume I: Components Design, e-ISBN 978-94-007-0513-5

Referring to body missions previously listed, the different configurations result in variations of upper body contribution for just a limited number of functions, in which the characteristics of body connection with the chassis is highly relevant: • structural function, • insulation and isolation, • safety and, • partially, aerodynamics (due to floor contribution). • The remaining functions are not directly affected . Focusing on the most common body configuration (C), through the example of a 2 box mass production body in white with spot welded steel stamped sheets, it is appropriate to consider the main stamped parts and follow a typical assembling process step-by-step, to gain a deeper understanding of the process used to manufacture the body, widely applied today.

Kaynak: VW, Otomobil Teknolojisinin Temelleri

www.audi-technology-portal.de

ASF - Audi Uzay Kafesi y“ksek mukavemetli bir al“minyum kafestir. Al“minyum kullanımı önemli bir ağırlık tasarrufu sağlayarak yakıt t“ketimini azaltır ve verimliliği arttırır.

Not: İlk kez 1 4 yılında Audi A ’de kullanılmıştır. http://www.audi.com.tr/tr/brand/tr/Efficiency/efficiency_technologies/road_resistance/audi_space_frame.html

KISA… KISA… KISA…

Chapter 9 Vehicle Construction, Thomson

(B) With body-over-frame construction, a thick gauge steel frame provides the foundation for holding other parts. This type of construction is commonly used on large trucks and SUVs.

Figure 1: Two very different methods used to construct modern vehicles: unibody and body-over-frame construction

(A) Unibody construction welds major body panels together to form the frame for attaching the engine, drivetrain, suspension, and other parts. This type of construction is commonly used on cars.

Figure 2: Note the space frame construction. Composite (plastic) panels fasten to a metal inner body structure. Composite panels can be made flexible to resist door dings and small dents.

Chapter 9 Vehicle Construction, Thomson

Chapter 9 Vehicle Construction, Thomson

Figure 3: This top view of unibody construction shows how structural members are added to support the engine suspension and other mechanical systems.

Chapter 9 Vehicle Construction, Thomson

Figure 4: Doors normally have strong steel beams under the door skin to protect people during side impact collisions.

Chapter 9 Vehicle Construction, Thomson

Summary

Vehicle classification relates to construction, size, shape, number of doors, type of roof, etc.

Three main types of frame construction

Body-over-frame, unibody, and space frame

Vehicle commonly divided into 3 body sections

Front section, or nose section

Center section, or midsection

Rear section, tail section, or rear clip

Vehicle sizes: compact, intermediate, full size