KARL HORST HÖDICKE ICH BIN EIN BERLINER - Tajanauction.tajan.com/pdf/2017/Artstudio/TAJAN_Art...ICH...

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KARL HORST HÖDICKE ICH BIN EIN BERLINER

Transcript of KARL HORST HÖDICKE ICH BIN EIN BERLINER - Tajanauction.tajan.com/pdf/2017/Artstudio/TAJAN_Art...ICH...

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KARL HORST HÖDICKEICH BIN EIN BERLINER

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Exposition Vente Espace TajanSelling Exhibition 37 rue des Mathurins 75008 Paris T. +33 1 53 30 30 30

Février 2017 / February 2017

Du lundi au vendredi 10h-18h / Monday to Friday 10am-6pm Ouvert samedi 11, 11h-18h / Open Saturday 11, 11am-6pm

Contact Julie Ralli +33 1 53 30 30 55 - [email protected]

KARL HORST HÖDICKE

ICH BIN EIN BERLINER

Prix sur demande / Prices available upon request

ICH BIN EIN BERLINERI A M A B E R L I N E RJ E S U I S B E R L I N O I S

“For me, if you cross the world in search of a special place, you will certainly end up in Berlin. I believe that one can always see in the city what I tried to show in my paintings.“

“Pour moi, celui qui parcourt le monde à la recherche d’un endroit particulier, finira forcément par atterrir à Berlin. Je pense que vous pouvez toujours voir dans la ville ce que j’ai essayé de montrer dans mes peintures.“ K. H. Hödicke

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WORDS OF WELCOME

As early as 2004, we initiated and hosted regularly at Tajan the program “The Artist and his Supporters”. This program of unique events brought together many of those creating, defending and promoting innovative art and design: artists, designers, curators, collectors, gallerists and journalists. This early program has now evolved and greatly developed leading to the creation of a separate entity and brand,

Through artist focused and thematic exhibitions presented several times a year, Tajan ArtStudio has now become a creative trendsetter. It is now a rich source to discover in Paris local and international new, emerging talent and rediscover overlooked or forgotten artistic movements and individual artists. Our goal is to share with the broadest public art, culture and our passion for innovation and creativity. In assuming this “trendsetter” role, we had the honor to present the contemporary creations of young artists and designers such as Adrian Ghenie, Matthias Weischer, Eva Nielsen, Joseph Walsh, Marcel Wanders, Frank Tjepkema... In parallel we focused on mature European artists such as François Rouan, Geta Bratescu and Ion Grigorescu, as well as major artists active in San Francisco and the Bay Area from 1960 to 1990 such as Robert Arneson, Joan Brown, Bruce Conner, Peter Saul, Wayne Thiebaud...

For the February 2017 edition, we are deeply honored to present Ich Bin Ein Berliner, an important exhibition featuring Karl Horst Hödicke, a key German artist and a pioneer of the German Neo-Expressionism and Neue Figuration movements. Born in Nuremberg in 1938, Hödicke lives and works In Berlin since the early 70’s and his life and work are an integral part of the city’s artistic and socio-political evolution. He was a painting professor at the Hochschule der Künste Berlin from 1974 to 2006 and he won the German Critic’s Prize in 1983 and the Fred Thieler Prize for Painting in 1998.

At Tajan ArtStudio, our selected artists, guest speakers and the public have the opportunity to share special moments and exchange interesting, challenging discussions. It is with great pleasure that we invite you all to come see this exhibition and to follow all our upcoming, exciting events.

Rodica Seward

En 2004, Tajan a initié le programme « L’Artiste et ceux qui le soutiennent » qui avait pour vocation de créer des événements uniques, militant pour la défense et la promotion de la création artistique en fédérant artistes, designers, collectionneurs, galeristes et journalistes. L’évolution et le développement grandissant de cette activité nous ont naturellement amenés à créer une entité à part entière :

Proposant plusieurs fois par an des expositions solo ou collectives, Tajan ArtStudio se positionne comme un véritable prescripteur vous invitant à découvrir des talents émergents, français ou internationaux, et à redécouvrir des mouvements artistiques oubliés ou méconnus. Nous avons ainsi eu le privilège d’exposer Adrian Ghenie, Eva Nielsen, Joseph Walsh, Frank Tjepkema, François Rouan, Marcel Wanders, Matthias Weischer, Geta Bratescu, Ion Grigorescu, mais aussi des artistes majeurs actifs dans la baie de San Francisco entre 1960 et 1990, parmi lesquels Robert Arneson, Joan Brown, Bruce Conner, Peter Saul, Wayne Thiebaud...

Pour cette édition de février 2017, nous avons le plaisir de présenter, Ich Bin Ein Berliner, une importante exposition consacrée à Karl Horst Hödicke, précurseur du mouvement néo-expressionniste allemand. Né à Nuremberg en 1938 et établi à Berlin depuis le début des années 70, la vie et le travail d’Hödicke font partie intégrante de l’évolution artistique et socio-politique de la capitale allemande. Professeur de peinture à la Hochschule der Künste à Berlin de 1974 à 2006, il a par ailleurs remporté le Prix de la critique allemande en 1983 et le Prix Fred Thieler pour la peinture en 1998.

Les artistes sélectionnés, les acteurs du marché et le public ont la chance de partager dans le cadre de Tajan ArtStudio un moment privilégié de convivialité, de discussion et d’échanges. C’est avec plaisir que nous vous invitons à découvrir cette exposition inédite et à suivre notre programmation artistique tout au long de l’année.

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Obrist: Let’s start out by talking about that film you wanted to make in the sewers...

Hödicke: Well, we didn’t get around to doing that film, but it was always in my head, and in the early Seventies my old friend Helmut Wietz and a certain Ms. Balzerowiak scraped some money together so we could fly to New York and at least do the exterior shots in the avenues. We didn’t make it to the sewers in New York; it was too difficult, something to do with the trade unions. So, my old friend Helmut Wietz said, “Hey, no problem, we’ll shoot it in Hamburg.” And I said, “Yeah, but the best sewers are in Istanbul!”, to which he replied, “That’s true, after all, The Third Man was shot in Istanbul,” but the sewers in Hamburg aren’t bad either. (laughs) So we did it in Hamburg.

Obrist: We’ll talk at length about painting and Berlin in the Eighties later, but the films seem to be a kind of a parallel reality for you. How did that come about? Were you a painter first, and then a filmmaker, or have you always been both at the same time?

Hödicke: Very tough question. I would say that when I was young, I was a sculptor. I worked a lot with clay, and when I was about fourteen I remember that in our neighborhood — I come from a place near Munich — there was a brickworks where I made my first sculptures. The people who made the bricks would let me put my work into the kiln with theirs. And then ten days later they were ready. Yes, that was pretty much what I did during my childhood. I only began painting after I started going to art school, which was much later.

Obrist: Who were your teachers?

Hödicke: My teacher was Fred Thieler...

Obrist: ...meaning abstract, Informel...

Hödicke: Yes, (laughs) exactly! He was a Tachist, as they used to say. Yes, but he was a very good teacher, did you ever meet him?

Obrist: No.

Hödicke: Great guy. But you do know his work...

Obrist: Very well...

Hödicke: I mean, he was a gentleman, he wouldn’t really say that much. He would say, “Well, I can see what you’re trying to express, but...”. I had done a couple of abstract paintings, but I’ve always been a figurative painter. That didn’t bother him in the slightest, however. Either he didn’t see it, or he didn’t care.

Obrist: And when would you say your catalog raisonné, so to speak, began? Because there is this idea, I don’t know if you did it, but a lot of artists put their student work in their catalog raisonné.

Hödicke: Well, no, there was a big problem here in Berlin; there were only three or four galleries. They, well, I went to all of them and asked: “Don’t you want to exhibit my work?”, and they said, “Yes, but we’re scheduling our program two years in advance.” To which I replied, “Well, looks like I’ll be an old man by the time you let me exhibit.” In a word, there simply were no opportunities for getting your work shown. That’s why together with some other people, I founded Großgörschen 35, a self-help gallery.

Obrist: What year was that?

Hödicke: That was 1964, in Schöneberg, Berlin. Two years ago, we celebrated its 50th anniversary. There’s also a catalog that’s gathered a rather good reputation. There were twelve people, twelve months, one factory building which cost 120 Marks, and if everybody paid ten marks a month then we could afford it, I figured. And it did work, until the unfortunate falling out. I’m jumping a bit here, but there was this work of mine hanging there, a glass pane, suspended from the ceiling in the middle of the room and painted on both sides. Back then I was a student teacher, and when I returned from my trainee program my mates had taken it down. Of course, I was furious and in the end this led to a major rift. That was when the painters Lüpertz and Wintersberger showed their solidarity, and we left the group together. So, that was it for me, and then I left for New York.

Obrist: And in New York there was Pop art...

Hödicke: No, in New York there was Color Field painting. There was Kenneth Noland with his diamond shaped paintings. It wasn’t so much

Pop, but rather huge paintings as big as the walls. However, that wasn’t what interested me the most.

Obrist: What were your defining influences? What inspired you?

Hödicke: Underground movies. Stan Brakhage, and that kind of stuff, I would say.

Obrist: Jonas Mekas, the Anthology of Film Archives...

Hödicke: Yes, yes, I must have watched at least a hundred underground movies during my time in New York. And I also had a camera with me. The film that stays with me the most is Easter-Be in; a beautiful piece, most probably the best hippie movie ever made (laughs). I did a lot of experimenting with glass panes and stuff like that in New York, and then returned in 1968, only to immediately leave for Rome. I came back to Berlin in the early Seventies, and was already a painter by then.

Obrist: Who were the painters that inspired you?

Hödicke: Those of Die Brücke. But I had noticed the others, too, I knew them all.

Obrist: And what was it exactly about die Brücke?

Hödicke: They were simply the strongest. Later I was at an exhibition here in Berlin, in the Alte National galerie; there was all sorts of stuff there, and then suddenly you stumble across a Nolde, and you say to yourself, “Yeah, everything else is kind of... crap.” (laughs). No, like I said, I was one of the members of [René] Block’s gallery; I knew Vostell, Richter, Paik, Beuys, everyone, and in New York, in 1966, via a certain Lil Picard I also got to know Warhol, who asked me what I was doing, and I said, “I’m a painter.” That

INTERVIEW WITH KARL HORST HÖDICKEBY HANS ULRICH OBRIST

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didn’t seem to interest him at all, since he was a filmmaker back then. We used to run into each other. He went to Max’s Kansas City, and we all used to eat our Idaho potatoes.

Obrist: So back to Berlin of the Seventies, a period completely different from now, when it was a divided city. I experienced that era right at the end, prior to 89. I once went to East Berlin in 1987, and there was the DAAD, which kept bringing people into Berlin, in comparison to Iran, for instance, which was closed off to visitors. What was your impression of Berlin when you came back? Was there still so little going on, or had the situation improved? Or did you have to open up a new space, a self-help gallery?

Hödicke: It was as dead as before. In Berlin, there was no market to speak of, no art was sold here at all. You mustn’t forget that this isn’t even a protestant city; it’s an ungodly place, and the only thing that people seem to be interested in here are their concerts. And if somebody came on stage wearing nothing but their underpants, then it would get a small article in the newspapers, but visual art didn’t happen. Only when a piece is worth a ten million, well, then it might get mentioned somewhere; but still nobody really talks about it.

Obrist: So, you’re back in Berlin by the end of the Sixties, nothing has changed. What did you do, open another gallery?

Hödicke: No, I had the good fortune that René Block opened up his gallery, which I was with until it closed down. I would say René Block was hands down the best gallerist we ever had. He had only internationally renowned artists, but back then none of them sold anything; commercially, that is, they were complete failures. There was Sigmar Polke, there was K.P. Brehmer, there was Richter, Beuys, there’s never been anything like that, before or after. When René sold his first painting he said, “I think we’re getting to close to the market now.” Anyway, he was a great gallery owner.

Obrist: Even in those days, there was this mixture in your work, of figurative painting, i.e., figures, people, on the one hand, and the urban environment on the other. The city always played a role. But what stirred your interest in the theme of the city? Oskar Kokoschka once

said in an interview that it was impossible to create a synthetic, all-encompassing portrait of a city, for in the moment you’re trying to capture it, it changes again, and that is what makes it so compelling.

Hödicke: If we would have met in my old studio in Dessauerstraße, I could have answered “Look out this window.” I’m trivializing a bit here, but that’s how it was: I was just looking out the window and told myself: that’s what I perceive of the city here. And even in the Seventies change was still slow. It hadn’t changed all that much here in this central area that I once called Tunguska, because it was just a completely empty space, completely destroyed in the war, a lonely wine shop somewhere on the Western horizon. I mean, you could take a look at it, and you would come back the next day, and so I painted that. In reality, however, it was a wasteland. Many of my works from that time have titles like Gobi or Rote Gobi, because I thought that this is a city with a big nothing at its center. That’s something you don’t see every day. I found that fascinating, really fascinating. And then this little bit of East, well, it made a small change, it brought an alligator into the picture, but don’t ask me why, I don’t know...

Obrist: Surreal elements?

Hödicke: I don’t think it’s surreal. I would rather call it dramatic. (laughs) I wanted a crocodile, like in a Punch and Judy Show, where the crocodile gets a good dressing-down. So, like in a puppet show, not actually surreal.

Obrist: It’s a pity we couldn’t meet in your studio, is it too remote?

Hödicke: You probably haven’t seen any of my original paintings in recent years?

Obrist: Sure, I went to see your exhibition at Johann König in Dessauerstraße [in the spring of 2016].

Hödicke: That’s good to hear, after all I was involved in designing it.

Obrist: Congratulations, that was a wonderful exhibition.

Hödicke: Thanks. Last year I published a book, Berlin Potsdamer Platz. My studio in Dessauerstraße is right next Potsdamer Platz, and the book grapples with this theme.

Back then, I didn’t rent this studio because of the significance the location might have had, but simply because it was available; the neighborhood was deserted, it was an abandoned printing company, and they had rooms for rent. That’s how I got there. I just want to stress that it wasn’t planned, and it only showed itself in retrospect to be the right spot, if you want it to see it like that.

Obrist: So, this, too, happened by accident...

Hödicke: Well, like I said, I found myself at the edge of this huge, deserted area. You can’t really see it today, but Dessauerstraße 6 was much emptier back then.

Obrist: So, we’re in Berlin, in the Seventies. It is like a landscape, your apartment, it goes top-down and bottom-up; it’s interesting.

Hödicke: Yes, it was really interesting. Three years ago, I had an exhibition in the Berlinischen Galerie. Dr. Stahlhut, who curated it and was involved in creating the catalog, is with the Kunstmuseum Luzern in Switzerland now.

Obrist: And the catalog is about your studio?

Hödicke: It is mainly about Dessauerstraße, the place where you saw the exhibition of my works from König. I have been working in my studio next door since 1975.

Obrist: When did you start to get a feeling for the importance of the location? In the beginning, it was pure coincidence...

Hödicke: Well, I never really cared about these things, all this wasn’t important to me, these were the days of the Cold War, and I don’t know if I’m getting carried away here now, but I was ignorant enough to think, “Who gives a damn, anyway.” Sure, the Wall was running right along close to my place and I always said, “If the Russians are coming, all I have to do is duck down and they’ll jump over me.”

Obrist: How did you get into teaching? You had a rather significant career as a teacher too. When did that happen?

Hödicke: I became a professor in 1974, at the age of 35. It was a question of putting food on the table. But, seriously, I applied for that opening, got accepted and enjoyed the job right

to the end, really enjoyed it. Some of my pupils have become quite successful...

Obrist: The exhibition centers on Berlin in the Eighties, your celebration of Berlin. But there’s also...

Hödicke: I’m more than a still-life painter, I even painted flowers.

Obrist: Yeah, I can see the fuchsias here...

Hödicke: Better late than never.

Obrist: Within your work, there’s this constant oscillation between portraits of people and portraits of the city.

Hödicke: Well, it’s a cheap answer, but before I went to the Hochschule der Künste, I took some courses in architecture at the TU. Maybe that accounts for something, but that doesn’t really explain my love for urban landscapes.

Obrist: How would you describe this time in Berlin? Was it in isolation? You’re there, working in the shadow of the Wall, but at the same time you’re living in a cosmopolitan city. I would call this a paradox, it creates a tension.

Hödicke: Yes, sure. I was doing an exhibition at Zwirner in Cologne. Politically, things got a bit tense, and when I arrived there on opening day, word got out that the Russians were coming. “Oh, really, you country bumpkins,” I replied. They thought they were at the frontline of things. Well, as someone from West Berlin you considered West Germany as some sort of province too. But the awareness of the situation here was huge.

Obrist: So, there was this awareness of a cosmopolitan city, but also a sense of claustrophobia?

Hödicke: No, no, I wouldn’t call it claustrophobia, we like each other here. It wasn’t claustrophobic at all. Despite the enormity of the place, we covered a lot of ground by foot. Walking from Charlottenburg to the Exil [a bar in neighboring Kreuzberg] could take you a couple days... (laughs).

Obrist: Though photography never played an overt role in the development of your work, I mean you don’t do photo paintings, but drawings and sketches... do you sketch while walking through the city?

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Hödicke: I draw at home, at the table, on a DINA4 sheet, but it’s more like doodling.

Obrist: And are these in preparation for your paintings?

Hödicke: No, not necessarily, no. There are a few drawings that eventually became paintings, like this Thai dugout canoe in this catalog here.

Obrist: And when you’re painting, do you paint fast? What does your work-flow look like?

Hödicke: Very fast. Real fast.

Obrist: You complete your pictures on the same day?

Hödicke: Well, my motto has always been, “You have to finish your painting before it vanishes in the fog.”

Obrist: That’s beautiful, that’s a great quote. Coming back to your time as a teacher, could you elaborate a little bit more on who your students were? You’ve mentioned before that a few of them have become famous, part of the generation of neo-abstract, neo-figurative art of the Eighties, the Junge Wilde artists showing at the artist-run Galerie am Moritzplatz. How did this movement amongst your students evolve, and did you realize this already in the late Seventies?

Hödicke: As I said, I started teaching in ‘74, and then took Salomé, Rainer Fetting and others to my workshop to show them my paintings which nobody wanted to buy. And this is how they got started with painting.

Obrist: So, you were a sort of catalyst?

Hödicke: For sure. There is no painter in this city that hasn’t made my acquaintance before. Not one.

Obrist: That’s a strong quote. Castelli was also part of this Transformer movement, he was working with photography. [...] And they started painting because of you, that’s very interesting.

Hödicke: Sure. Salomé’s application consisted of a folding-screen with some rags thrown over it, and, yeah, I found it intriguing. There wasn’t much of a concept behind it, he just painted what he saw in his environment. That’s the kind of approach that I still prefer, even today.

Obrist: And then you continued teaching throughout the Nineties?

Hödicke: Yes, right to the bitter end. They kicked me out when I turned 68.

Obrist: Which leads me to the next question: Rainer-Maria Rilke wrote a little book of advice called Letters to a Young Poet. What advice would you give to a young artist?

Hödicke: Well, my first student was my first wife, Christa Dichgans...

Obrist: The Pop art painter? That was your first wife?

Hödicke: Yes, and my son, Jonas, he is my last student. But you were asking what advice I would give to a young artist?

Obrist: Yes, because you have influenced so many people, you really should be able to give good advice...

Hödicke: Well, it’s about keeping the flame alive...

Obrist: Passing on the torch?

Hödicke: Sure, you have to convince people. Don’t forget that I hail from Bavaria, and none of these damned Prussians here can really paint. So, you have to teach them, and, last but not least, show them how much fun it is.

Obrist: So, it’s a lot about conveying fun?

Hödicke: When you’re painting a picture, you’re creating something no one’s ever seen before, that’s far out, isn’t it?

Obrist: A new world. A world-creation.

Hödicke: Yeah, which explains a certain aversion towards concept art and all that stuff, where you basically know beforehand what the outcome will be.

Obrist: Which leads me to the question of chance. You stumbled upon your studio next to Potsdamer Platz more or less accidentally, which then became your place of work for thirty years, giving birth to a plethora of works. How much of a role, then, does chance play?

Hödicke: Chance? It just keeps getting in your way. You only learn from mistakes. Chance is the motor.

Obrist: If chance is the motor, what role does energy play?

Hödicke: Energy? Energy means you try to take all this seriously more often than not. I consider myself a conservative artist, conservative in my approach, because as a figurative artist I’m convinced that art is about shaping a world as seen through your own eyes. Well, at least that’s my conviction, and it’s going to be pretty hard to convince me otherwise.

Obrist: What about colors? You’re using a lot of very strong colors. Do you have a favorite color? The painter and poet Etel Adnan, a good friend of mine, always says, “Red trumps everything, red is the strongest color.” But you would certainly disagree.

Hödicke: Yes, for sure. I once had a discussion with Michael Werner about colors, the strongest contrast and stuff like that. He was convinced that black-and-white constituted the strongest contrast, but I said, “Michael, turquoise and pink is much worse.” He didn’t really feel like continuing our little discussion after that.

Obrist: Looking at your catalogs here, I can’t help but be intrigued by the big transition that your work is going through. You were working in your studio, and then, there was this big change in world history that was 1989. Not only because of the fall of the Berlin Wall, but also because of Tiananmen Square in China, and [Francis] Fukuyama claiming that the end of history had come, but then one realized that it hadn’t stopped, quite the opposite...

Hödicke: Yes, it was Fukuyama that talked about the end of history.

Obrist: But to talk of the end of history was complete nonsense. 1989 was full of history, Tiananmen Square, the advent of the World Wide Web, the fall of the Berlin Wall, the invention of GPS. And you amidst all this change. We have entries dating from 1990, in which you talk about suddenly finding yourself on the biggest construction site in all of Europe. Could you describe your memories of ‘89 a little bit?

Hödicke: To give you an idea of what it looked like: My studio in Dessauerstraße has this huge window front, and on one side you have this view of Potsdamer Platz. Over there’s a

stretch of waste-land with puddles, and there’s thousands of pigeons too, but it had its own tranquility. I was personally affected by the events in ‘89 because the building my studio was in hadn’t been demolished just because they said, “If reunification comes, we need a free hand in planning, because then we’ll need to install the connectors. Well, after that they said, “Reunification is never going to come.” And then you could buy the building. That’s the way it was. It was a complete no man’s land. And then they opened the gates in ‘89, and people came flooding in. Next thing you know, the first building cranes went up. At the very end, there were one hundred cranes in that area! The Wall came down, and a lot of new things came to light that had been buried before. After that, a lot of people flocked to Berlin, attracted by a different kind of atmosphere.

Obrist: And this vacuum at Potsdamer Platz in the middle of a big city, a vacuum that couldn’t exist forever, that one day had to vanish... like this drawing here...

Hödicke: Exactly, this implosion.

Obrist: Like a geodesic dome.

Hödicke: Well, no one really had a clue what to do with this new center. I mean even today, it looks arduously assembled: it doesn’t have any style. You have the Sony Center, then that strange thing there on the canal. There is no style to it. It all came as a surprise to Berlin, and they haven’t really come to grips with it.

Obrist: And all that is going into your paintings.

Hödicke: For sure. (laughs)

Obrist: Now, if you look at your work, with the National Gallery, the ruins, the Victory Column...

Hödicke: Yes, a nice drawing. (laughs)

Obrist: They are really beautiful. And then, quite often, there’s the “night,” something that caught my attention early on, when I looked at your works as a student during the Eighties, something that has continued to underscore your work. It’s not just cities during daylight, but, like Alex Katz, you’re often depicting urban life at night. Could you comment on that?

Hödicke: Yes, yes. For example, the fireworks over Alexanderplatz, at night. We Berliners have

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always been “nocturnal creatures” that never leave their homes before eleven.

Obrist: Wolfgang Tillmans said to me recently that there’s this growing tendency of trying to control what happens at night. Back then there was more freedom, the night was...

Hödicke: In Berlin, you went to the Zwiebelfisch at eleven, and at five in the morning, when that other type of creature went to work, you quietly made your way home. Ironically, people in Berlin were dirt poor, and yet they always had money for beer. And they had time. And there were great pubs, real centers of culture. Not all of them, not many, but a few. Good old Baselitz once wisecracked that all people thought about in Berlin was booze. Well, that wasn’t true at all, we worked like hell.

Obrist: What about your sculptures? We haven’t talked about them yet...

Hödicke: In this work Babylon, 1988 it’s just a brick or a building block that’s broken and piled upon itself. What interested me was that this brick gives you a structure similar to that of an ancient Greek column. You’re getting a structure that wasn’t there before, giving you some sort of facade. I find this interesting. Do you know one of my objects called Kalter Fluss [1969/1972]?

Obrist: No.

Hödicke: Kalter Fluss is a barrel of tar suspended from the ceiling at a height of about four or five meters. At a normal room temperature of 20 to 23 degrees celsius, the tar is slowly pouring down on the floor, so slow in fact, that you can’t really see it. It takes about six weeks to empty out the barrel, resulting in an exquisitely layered pancake on the floor, since the tar is pouring out so slowly the earth is turning beneath it. The effect is similar to that of the Foucault pendulum, I think.

Obrist: Resulting in this sculpture?

Hödicke: Yes, and at the last exhibition at the Berlinische Galerie [in 2013], the Noack foundry picked up the tar cake and produced a cast out of it.

Obrist: If we could choose another title for it for the sake of this interview, which title would you choose?

Hödicke: I have no idea, that’s hard to say. I just thought Ich bin ein Berliner was too pathetic and emotional. It’s the title of the exhibition in any case now! I’m just hoping that it gives people some impression...

Obrist: Yeah, but it also conveys this aspect of the flaneur, the urban flaneur.

Hödicke: Well, we don’t have anything else on offer in Berlin (laughs). Although Berlin has a lot of woods and lakes. Berlin wouldn’t have survived without the Havel lakes, I’m pretty sure. The city has survived because of its surrounding countryside. Otherwise Berliners would have gone crazy.

Obrist: One question I always ask is the question of unrealized projects. We’ve heard a lot about unrealized architectural projects, but we know very little about unrealized art projects. That’s why I try to document and archive them. Considering your long, impressive and extensive oeuvre, do you have an idea how many paintings there really are? I tried to figure it out, there must be thousands.

Hödicke: Yes, I would agree, it must be around thousand.

Obrist: Well, in this incredibly comprehensive work, countless sculptures, films, drawings and texts, you’re also writing. Are there any unrealized projects? Things you haven’t yet painted? That were too big? Dreams?

Hödicke: I always wanted to go to Greenland. (laughs) But I never got around to doing it.

Obrist: Well, that shouldn’t be too big of a problem.

Hödicke: Yes, I know, but I’m too lazy.

Obrist: But is there unrealized work? Or major projects? Installations?

Hödicke: Well, there’s one or two pictures, where I really can’t help but think, “I really should have painted one of these.” That’s true. But it isn’t like I have the feeling, if only I had climbed the Himalaya, for example. No.

Obrist: But I like the idea that you always wanted to go to Greenland. This exhibition is focused on Paris and Berlin, and your work is very much rooted in Berlin. But as is often the case, the travels of painters are reflected in their work:

I’m thinking of Tahiti in Gauguin’s case, and the same is true for Gerhard Richter. At some point, he made a trip to Greenland. He also made drawings of Sils-Maria in the Engadin.

Hödicke: If you look at my drawings, you can’t help but notice that I was a big fan of Lapland [north-ernmost Finland]. I went there quite often. And I really enjoyed my trip to Nepal, Southeast Asia too. This here is Lapland. [points to a drawing: o.T.]

Obrist: And what was it that inspired you there?

Hödicke: Well, nature. It’s the perfect dream. You can drink from the creeks there.

Obrist: Almost like Iceland. I love Iceland. There you can also...

Hödicke: ...drink from the creeks, really?

Obrist: Almost.

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1514

KLEINE REFLEKTION, 1965Résine synthétique sur toile

Synthetic resin on canvas145 x 160 cm - 571/8 x 63 in.

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1716

SITZENDER AKT, 1980Résine synthétique sur toile

Synthetic resin on canvas190 x 155 cm - 743/4 x 61 in.

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1918

MALER UND MODELL, 1976Résine synthétique sur toile

Synthetic resin on canvas190 x 130 cm - 743/4 x 511/8 in.

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2120

ANGLER AM SUDDESJAURE, 1977Résine synthétique sur toile

Synthetic resin on canvas190 x 130 cm - 743/4 x 511/8 in.

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2322

SCHAFSCHERER, 2008Résine synthétique sur toile

Synthetic resin on canvas190 x 145 cm - 743/4 x 571/8 in.

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2524

SCHWEINCHEN, 1973Résine synthétique sur toile

Synthetic resin on canvas155 x 190 cm - 61 x 743/4 in.

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2726

ELVIRA AUF TREPPE, 1979Résine synthétique sur toile

Synthetic resin on canvas190 x 135 cm - 743/4 x 531/8 in.

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2928

VIA DEL CORSO, 1982Résine synthétique sur toile

Synthetic resin on canvas230 x 170 cm - 901/2 x 667/8 in.

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3130

BLAUES INTERIEUR, 1977Résine synthétique sur toile

Synthetic resin on canvas150 x 175 cm - 59 x 687/8 in.

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3332

ELVIRA INTERIEUR DESSAUER STRASSE, 1978Résine synthétique sur toile

Synthetic resin on canvas155 x 190 cm - 61 x 743/4 in.

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3534

TAMILE ÜBER DER STADT, 1979Résine synthétique sur toile

Synthetic resin on canvas170 x 230 cm - 667/8 x 901/2 in.

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3736

DIE SCHÖNE UND DAS BIEST, 1979Résine synthétique sur toile

Synthetic resin on canvas140 x 190 cm - 551/8 x 743/4 in.

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3938

SCHWARZE SONNENBLUMEN, 1992Résine synthétique sur toile

Synthetic resin on canvas190 x 150 cm - 743/4 x 59 in.

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4140

BRANDENBURGER TOR, 1990Résine synthétique sur toile

Synthetic resin on canvas190 x 130 cm - 743/4 x 511/8 in.

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4342

MAY DAY, 1992Résine synthétique sur toile

Synthetic resin on canvas150 x 190 cm - 59 x 743/4 in.

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4544

ARAGARA, 1973Résine synthétique sur toile

Synthetic resin on canvas190 x 80 cm - 743/4 x 311/2 in.

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4746

SACKGASSE, 1987Résine synthétique sur toile

Synthetic resin on canvas150 x 190 cm - 59 x 743/4 in.

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4948

BRUCHSTÜCKE, 1990Résine synthétique sur toile

Synthetic resin on canvas185 x 265 cm - 727/8 x 1043/8 in.

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5150

WACHTTURM, 1985Acrylique et huile sur toileAcrylic and oil on canvas

230 x 170 cm - 901/2 x 667/8 in.

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5352

DAS LICHT AM ENDE DES TUNNELS, 2015Résine synthétique sur toile

Synthetic resin on canvas190 x 240 cm - 743/4 x 941/2 in.

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54 55

SANS TITREFusain sur papierCharcoal on paper61 x 86 cm - 24 x 337/8 in.

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5756

REMERCIEMENTS / SPECIAL THANKS

Karl Horst Hödicke

König Galerie

Galerie Klaus Gerrit Friese

Hans Ulrich Obrist

CREDITS PHOTOGRAPHIQUES Angelika Platen - Youssef Nabil - Eric Tscharnow - Jonas Hödicke - König Galerie - Galerie Klaus Gerrit Friese

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5958

TAJAN SA

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